Ready for the next round ? Pro-Thaksin denounce the “coup in disguise”

It was so easy to predict like 2+2 = 4…

After the announcement of the “Frankenstein coalition” (Democrat Party + defectors of the previous coalition)… the pro-Thaksin supporters are very upset and denounce the “coup in disguise” !

So ready for the next round ? We had the protests of the “Yellows” (PAD), we might soon have the protests of the “Reds” … Play it again, Sam. 😉

The pro-Thaksin Democratic Alliance Against Dictatorship Sunday alleged that the formation of the Democrat-led coalition was a “coup in disguise” because it was arranged by the military.

DAAD leaders, who are hosts of the Truth Today programme on NBT, vowed to expose alleged military interference in politics during the planned mobile Truth Today gathering at the National Stadium on Saturday (Dec 13).

The Truth Today hosts – Veera Musigapong, Jatuporn Promphan and Natthawut Saikua – held a press conference to attack the military and the Democrat Party.

Veera said he was informed that leading members of certain political parties were called to a meeting at the house of a senior military officer Saturday night and they were told to support the Democrat as the next coalition leader.

Veera said the general told the parties’ representatives that he received an order from someone.

So, we, in the name of red-shirted people, would like to call this as a coup in disguise,” Veera said. (Nation)

Anyway, the political circus is not over. And we have to wait for the election of the Prime Minister… And the Democrat Party wants obviously to go very fast (before the surprise effect could vanish…).

The Democrat Party is gathering names of at least one third of all MPs in the House of Representatives to submit to the House Speaker to petition his opening of an extraordinary session of Parliament to elect new prime minister on Monday. (TNA)

22 Responses to “Ready for the next round ? Pro-Thaksin denounce the “coup in disguise””


  1. 1 Angelo Michel 7 December 2008 at 10:06 pm

    About NBT :

    This is a governement media, no ?

    So, change the government, they will have to “change tone”, maybe to remove the “pro-red” programmes …

    If only “the reds” had built a private media network … LOL

    NB:Media pluralism in a democracy is a MUST, and the “state media” should be politically neutral … mmmm that reminds me of some (other) countries “democratically mature” !

  2. 2 chinesethai 8 December 2008 at 2:17 am

    ThaiCrisis:

    Let them protest because they have the right to do so.

    You will learn that the UDD/DAAD Red Shirt People is largely motivated by short-term interest rather than idealism. They cannot endure long-term, continuous demonstration like we had seen about PAD. The Truth Today’s Trio do this just to extort their wages from Thaksin.

    TC, you have mentioned many times about the so-called martyrdom of several PAD protesters who were not fearful but ready to sacrifice personal interests and even their limbs and lives for what they believe in.

  3. 3 Bedwyr 8 December 2008 at 5:13 am

    I confess to having experienced a 180 degree reversal in sentiment this year.

    Thaksin was crooked and a thoroughly odious character. A thief and an asshole in fact. Never-the-less, he was the people’s choice.

    Abhisit is a loser, rightly destined I believe, for obscurity and abiding scorn. A wimp.

    From having a long-standing antipathy towards Thaksin, and an intuitive empathy for the ‘Democrats’ (doubtless more due to an abhorrence for Thaksin and his corrupt cohorts than an admiration for the ineffectual ‘Democrats’), I have been experiencing increasing outrage over the generally Macchiavellian machinations and deceptions of PAD, the military, the bureacracy, the judiciary and the Palace.

    Having also read Paul Handley’s excellent book in the intervening period, I have experienced feelings of extreme and accelerating distaste for the people who represent the ‘Bangkok Elite’, who are clearly opposing the adoption of any kind of meaningful democracy in Thailand in order to maintain an anachronistic and feudal status quo.

    Instrumental in this change of perspective have been the ThaiCrisis and Bangkok Pundit blogs (less so Fonzi because I think he has vested interests). Well done guys.

    So far as I am concerned, the sooner we get a high-profile death and the majority of Thais assert themselves and shake free of the appalling propaganda and patronage in Thailand, the better. I think it will take the death of the father and the accession of the hated son to expose the whole cesspit of the last 60 years in Thailand and bring the whole structure crashing down.

    In this instance, I am concluding that Thaksin, as unpleasant and corrupt as he was, is by far the lesser of two weevils (with apologies to ‘Master and Commander’). Perhaps even a thief and cheat can be useful in the larger game. If someone doesn’t bump him off first.

    Confession, soul, good for.

    Bedwyr

  4. 4 generous sponsor 8 December 2008 at 6:12 am

    So if Apisik becomes PM it may be a short-lived stint as well, since he had called for fresh elections just last week? As PM, he will have power to dissolve the legislature and do just that, as he’s a man of his word 🙂

  5. 5 chinesethai 8 December 2008 at 9:48 am

    Bedwyr,

    Thaksin the lesser of 2 evils? You believe so? The future, in which Thaksin will be dominant, will prove you wrong. Thaksin is even worse than the Monarchy in terms of sustaining the patronage system. You haven’t experienced what elections in Thailand were like at the village level. They have got even worse since the emergence of Thaksin in politics.

    Although Paul Handley’s book is controversial, it should not be taken as ‘the’ Thai history bible, which many westerners tend to do so. I don’t mean that other accounts of Thailand’s monarchy are right. They are seriously flawed too because of the lese majeste law.

    I have learned from the events in both Thailand and China especially in the case of Tibet that most western observers are still trapped in their old paradigm too, in which their idea is superior and universal. Therefore, they tend to impose their incompatible idea on other local cultures, which evolve from totally different histories than the West.

  6. 6 thaioutsidein 8 December 2008 at 10:06 am

    i tend to agree with both thaichinese and bedwyr

    when you are comparing (excuse my language!) shixt and garbage systems. they are both corrupted, self-serving groups that are fighting over for power and have complete disregard of thai ppl. i think more and more thais are starting to realize.

    one point i disagree on thaichinese points that UDD is not driven by ideology compared to PAD. Leaders of BOTH are not driven by ideologies.

  7. 7 chinesethai 8 December 2008 at 10:11 am

    And BTW, I encourage you guys to also study why Hun Sen is dominant in Cambodia, which shares cultural similarities with Thailand. Is Cambodia better off after the Cambodian Monarchy was reduced to the kingdom’s small logo and Hun Sen filling the power vacuum? You’ll be appalled.

  8. 8 chinesethai 8 December 2008 at 10:45 am

    I have a new way to explain what we Thais are faced with now.

    If you were forced to choose one out of these 2 types, which type of powerful leader would you choose to live under?

    Type I self-serving + cold blooded + hyperactive + clever

    Type II self-serving + cold blooded + super lazy + stupid

    I would choose Type II in no time.

  9. 9 Bedwyr 8 December 2008 at 11:59 am

    I have learned from the events in both Thailand and China especially in the case of Tibet that most western observers are still trapped in their old paradigm too, in which their idea is superior and universal. Therefore, they tend to impose their incompatible idea on other local cultures, which evolve from totally different histories than the West.

    There is nothing so very wonderful about the oriental (mainly derived from the Chinese) culture. It is most often characterised by prejudice, bigotry, exploitation, routine corruption and disregard for the value of human life. If that means the generally less corrupt and dissolute occidental culture is better then so be it, but the fact is that the western countries have been (until the rise of China) wealthier, and this has a lot to do with IQ, work ethic, social culture and law enforcement. Proof of the pudding, who did the Thai government go to, cap in hand when they needed bailing out of the fiasco they caused themselves in 1997?

    Also bear in mind, that as contemptuous as westerners often are about Thais, the arrogance and superior attitude of Thais towards other nations have justifiably earned them the contempt of their neighbours Laos, Cambodia, Singapore, Malaysia and Vietnam, most of whom tolerate Thais because of their geographical position and not because of their good neighbour policies or their culture. Even the Burmese, who don’t have any friends either have a healthy scorn for Thais.

    The fact is that Thais have no friends in the world, and they have nobody to blame but themselves. Sure western countries put the boot in occasionally, but make no mistake, Thais don’t have any friends in SE Asia either. Superior culture or not.

    Bedwyr

  10. 10 Insanity 8 December 2008 at 12:55 pm

    Pope John Paul II, in his encyclical Centesimus
    annus (1991), called it an “abuse in the sight of God and
    humanity, if someone directs his capital against the
    people and their work,” and this has happened, without
    a doubt,in Thailand.

  11. 11 paperback 8 December 2008 at 1:28 pm

    @ chinesethai

    “I have learned from the events in both Thailand and China especially in the case of Tibet that most western observers are still trapped in their old paradigm too, in which their idea is superior and universal. Therefore, they tend to impose their incompatible idea on other local cultures, which evolve from totally different histories than the West.”

    I wonder which “ideas” you are referring too. If we talk about basic human rights, like right to life, freedom from slavery and cruel treatment, freedom of movement, freedom of speech, freedom of religion, right to self-determination etc. the only ones who claim they are NOT universal are the ones violating them and gaining profit from such violation. The problem with the Western world is not that it claims that human rights are universal but that they also violate them but nevertheless think only others are to blame.

    Humans are humans, everywhere. Nobody loves injustice except the ones who exercise it.

    I don’t mean this as a comment on the present situation in Thailand but I strongly disagree with your relativism towards human rights.

  12. 12 thaioutsidein 8 December 2008 at 2:05 pm

    Didn’t want to have back and forth in this great blog. But Bedwyr, your second paragraph is really offensive.

    Learn a bit more about history, cross-country IQ comparison, GDP share back in the past centuries, etc. before you make such statements.

    Para 3, I agree with part of it.

  13. 13 chinesethai 8 December 2008 at 2:09 pm

    I do not deny that corruption is deep-rooted the oriental cultures. And I do not deny that East Asia is looking up the West for social culture and law enforcement.

    What we are denying is the fact the complacent West is trying to impose its incompatible way of thinking on Asia in transition without acknowledging cultural and historical differences. Taiwan and South Korea have had their own ways of transforming themselves into democracy – benevolent authoritarianism, which the West resents. Mainland China and Singapore are going through that process. Thailand was about to go through similar one in the era of visionary Royalist Field Marshal Sarit Dhanarajda but he died prematurely.

    Also bear in mind, that as contemptuous as westerners often are about Thais, the arrogance and superior attitude of Thais towards other nations have justifiably earned them the contempt of their neighbours Laos, Cambodia, Singapore, Malaysia and Vietnam, most of whom tolerate Thais because of their geographical position and not because of their good neighbour policies or their culture. Even the Burmese, who don’t have any friends either have a healthy scorn for Thais.
    By citing those neighbouring countries’ views towards Thailand, one cannot just simply generalize that Thailand is the only nation who has no friends because of its arrogance. It is the nature of the whole region. In fact, the survivor Singapore is the most obvious example. Does it have true friends in this region? Not at all and I believe it is in a worse position than is Thailand. Malaysia, Thailand, and Indonesia, all of which view west-leaning Singapore with deeper distrust and suspicion.

    Back to Thailand. Ironically, the period in which Thailand was at peak of its arrogance towards its neighbours is when it, under the “Anti-Royalist” Por Pibulsonggram and Thanom-Prapas military dictatorships, aligned itself with the West, led by the United States, in the Indochina War. This alliance had caused devastation to the people of Cambodia, Lao, and Vietnam.

    And remember how you guys recently ridiculed China as Thaksin’s best friend just because of its authoritarian regime. I argued that Mainland China is smarter than you thought. Now as low key as it is always, Beijing has barred Thaksin from using its mainland territory as staging ground for his political assault against the people of Thailand. The west is still in its old paradigm indeed.

  14. 14 Bedwyr 8 December 2008 at 4:21 pm

    @ Thaioutsidein:

    Apart from being offensive (which is in the eye of the beholder), what bits of what I said do you think are actually wrong?

    Bedwyr

  15. 15 Bedwyr 8 December 2008 at 4:33 pm

    @ ChineseThai:

    By citing those neighbouring countries’ views towards Thailand, one cannot just simply generalize that Thailand is the only nation who has no friends because of its arrogance. It is the nature of the whole region. In fact, the survivor Singapore is the most obvious example. Does it have true friends in this region? Not at all and I believe it is in a worse position than is Thailand. Malaysia, Thailand, and Indonesia, all of which view west-leaning Singapore with deeper distrust and suspicion.

    I am not sure how it is that because Singaporeans are arrogant and despised, this somehow makes Thais less culpable for being arrogant and despised.

    By the way, I should point out that I think the poorer Thais in North and North-East are a whole different species. It is always an annoyance to me when I see the head-up-their-asses Bangkok Sino-Thai looks down their noses at the Laos-Thais. Their bigotry and contempt for other Thais is far, far worse than my contempt for the Bangkok Thai whom I believe have close to nothing to recommend them at all. Give me the Isaan Thai any time, and I suspect many foreigners feel exactly the same.

    It has been obvious for a long time that the ‘superior’ Thais are so happy about themselves they spend a fortune on nose jobs, skin-whitener and western fashion so they can look more like the farang they resent so much.

    Funny old world.

    Yes, corruption is endemic in Thailand, Thais fairly reek of it. The Thai disregard for law and order is ultimately what will prevent it from joining the developed world. of course the King could stop it. He just doesn’t. Same as he just chooses not to oblige the ‘Royal Thai Police Force’ to enforce law and order in Thailand. I wonder what the reason is.

    Bedwyr

  16. 16 ThaiCrisis 8 December 2008 at 4:40 pm

    Guys… obviously you don’t agree with each others. 😉

    What about the “Frankenstein Coalition” and its chances to succeed ?

    You should give us your thoughts on this issue.

    Shall we bet ?

    I bet that it will fail. We will have a “coup de theatre” within the “coup de theatre” and Abhisit won’t be elected.

  17. 17 thaioutsidein 8 December 2008 at 7:22 pm

    Bedwyr,

    “There is nothing so very wonderful about the oriental (mainly derived from the Chinese) culture”

    – Bhuddism, Zen, Taoism, Respect for elders, arts and architecture, food, languages, inventions such as calander, paper, compass…just listing out universal examples

    “that the western countries have been (until the rise of China) wealthier”

    not true. with exception of Roman empire in first century, western countries only had higher share of world’s wealth in 1800’s. Before that it was Chinese / Indians that were the wealthiest nations.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_regions_by_past_GDP_(PPP)

    “this has a lot to do with IQ”

    Asian people have higher IQ than Caucasians on average:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_intelligence

    Thailand is clearly behind Europe / US in democracy, education, rules of laws, human rights, etc. It will take time to get through deadlocks of dictators and crooks like Bhumibol / Thaksin. It will take time, but we will get there.

    If you are so interested in situation in Thailand that you come to check this blog everyday, I would appreciate some respect of Thai, and Asian people and cultures in general. I was raised and educated in U.S., have worked in Europe, and experienced many good parts and flaws of Western cultures as well. But I won’t blame that on the IQ.

    Cheers,

  18. 18 thaioutsidein 8 December 2008 at 7:27 pm

    ThaiCrisis,

    Think the Frankenstein will last about a year.

    Saw the proposed minister teams. Looks terrible except for economic team. Korn Chatikavanijon, ex MD at JPM, will likely be finance minister. I have read some of his stuffs and the guy is clearly smart. Not sure about his motives and influence by the Frankenstein.

  19. 19 ThaiCrisis 8 December 2008 at 8:00 pm

    Saw the proposed minister teams

    Where have you seen this list ?

    And he is this Korn ?
    http://thailandjumpedtheshark.blogspot.com/2008/10/korn-chatikavanij-letter-to-thaksin-and.html

  20. 20 Bedwyr 8 December 2008 at 10:56 pm

    @ Thaioutsidein:

    Bhuddism, Zen, Taoism, Respect for elders, arts and architecture, food, languages, inventions such as calander, paper, compass…just listing out universal examples.

    Well, to be far, most of this is in the eye of the beholder. I could argue with the religious and Confucian aspects of the culture but it would serve no useful purpose because ultimately it is just opinion. The calendar, paper, compass are not born of a culture but a universal inventiveness, and there are also negatives. Gunpowder from cultural aggressiveness, melamine contamination from cultural dishonesty, avoidable earthquake deaths because of corruption etc etc, – depends on your view so best to leave them out.

    Ref relative wealth, oh come on. You take 2 examples (China and India) and attempt to extend that to all Asian countries? Tsk tsk. that is dishonest debating, and I suspect you know better than this. Best to avoid the Schopenhauer tactics, they have no place here.

    On the IQ, you have pointed to a long article and drawn from it a conclusion the article itself does not contain. Naughty again, but aside from that, are you really saying that the difference in industrial development or wealth or GDP gap between (say) UK and Thailand (comparable populations) is not related to the average IQ of the population? I suspect you will find that position unsustainable. The unfairly demonized book ‘The Bell Curve’ drew the conclusion that genetically, the Asians were the highest IQ, and you can see this reflected by the Japanese, Koreans, Hong-kong, Taiwanese in the ‘Wealth of Nations’ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IQ_and_the_Wealth_of_Nations ).

    But again you seek to apply a broad average score to a specific sub-set of the sample, which is a misuse of statistics, and you know it.

    C’mon, this isn’t a serious issue, you shouldn’t use questionable tactics to cast doubt on truth, just because you don’t like it being true.

    Bedwyr.

  21. 21 thaioutsidein 9 December 2008 at 5:34 am

    you were talking about oriental culture in your original paragraph. not thailand.

    anyway, no point debating with you. think we and people in this board get our positions.

  22. 22 thaioutsidein 9 December 2008 at 5:35 am

    ThaiCrisis:

    I saw this in a Thai language paper. More speculation than news.

    Yes, unfortunately, it is the same Korn.


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Thailand Crisis

Coup, Economic slowdown, Terror In the South... The situation is worsening in Thailand. Bumpy road like often before.

But this time, it's different.

The key to understand the present turmoil is the inevitable... succession of King Bhumibol.


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